retirednow | MyCollect

added 2 photos

Seems to me that us pattern collectors do not chatter very much, which is not a bad thing, however I am going to boast a little here.

I Just received my 5C Pattern J-634 from the last Simpson FUN Auction conducted by Heritage.

I make note of this as it is the 2nd to last piece I needed to complete a series of Small Denomination pattern sets of 1868/1869 that I had been assembling. I have been able to collect samples of both Nickel and copper to showcase the attempt of the mint standardize small denominations (1C, 3C and 5C) in 1868/69. Now - if I only won the 3CN in copper J619 that Dr. Bones won in the Simpson sale a couple of years ago, my story would be complete

Seems to me that us pattern collectors do not chatter very much, which is not a bad thing, however I am going to boast a little here. I Just received my 5C Pattern J-634 from the last Simpson FUN Auction conducted by Heritage. I make note of this as it is the 2nd to last piece I needed to complete a series of Small Denomination pattern sets of 1868/1869 that I had been assembling. I have been able to collect samples of both Nickel and copper to showcase the attempt of the mint standardize small denominations (1C, 3C and 5C) in 1868/69. Now - if I only won the 3CN in copper J619 that Dr. Bones won in the Simpson sale a couple of years ago, my story would be complete 😊

7 Comments 0 Shares 1998 Views

I've added these coins to my inventory:

•
•
•
•
•
•
•
•
•
•
•
•
•
•
•
•
•

I've added these coins to my inventory: • [coin:0e13f1a3-5d74-11ef-bdbb-060e37a4c43f] • [coin:0e145423-5d74-11ef-bdbb-060e37a4c43f] • [coin:0e1496de-5d74-11ef-bdbb-060e37a4c43f] • [coin:0e14f01e-5d74-11ef-bdbb-060e37a4c43f] • [coin:0e150f12-5d74-11ef-bdbb-060e37a4c43f] • [coin:0e15441d-5d74-11ef-bdbb-060e37a4c43f] • [coin:0e157e2e-5d74-11ef-bdbb-060e37a4c43f] • [coin:0e15a693-5d74-11ef-bdbb-060e37a4c43f] • [coin:0e15c4b6-5d74-11ef-bdbb-060e37a4c43f] • [coin:0e15e096-5d74-11ef-bdbb-060e37a4c43f] • [coin:0e15faab-5d74-11ef-bdbb-060e37a4c43f] • [coin:0e161320-5d74-11ef-bdbb-060e37a4c43f] • [coin:0e162e51-5d74-11ef-bdbb-060e37a4c43f] • [coin:0e1646df-5d74-11ef-bdbb-060e37a4c43f] • [coin:0e166069-5d74-11ef-bdbb-060e37a4c43f] • [coin:0e16795d-5d74-11ef-bdbb-060e37a4c43f] • [coin:0e16914d-5d74-11ef-bdbb-060e37a4c43f]

0 Comments 0 Shares 994 Views

Commenting is disabled.

Dr.Bones

The July 1881 Chapman sale and February 1882 Sampson sale state that 5 sets were made. Although I think it is believed that 6 were made. In the Linderman sales of 1887/1888 he had a set as well as an individual J-621. I did find in other years were a few extra pieces were available outside the sets. This would likely explain a minimum of 6 coins with perhaps 2-3 made outside of the sets in some cases. In the case of the Linderman sale, the original Low 1887 sale had a complete set and an individual J-621 which were confiscated by the US government and were not part of the 2/1888 Scott sale

The July 1881 Chapman sale and February 1882 Sampson sale state that 5 sets were made. Although I think it is believed that 6 were made. In the Linderman sales of 1887/1888 he had a set as well as an individual J-621. I did find in other years were a few extra pieces were available outside the sets. This would likely explain a minimum of 6 coins with perhaps 2-3 made outside of the sets in some cases. In the case of the Linderman sale, the original Low 1887 sale had a complete set and an individual J-621 which were confiscated by the US government and were not part of the 2/1888 Scott sale
TheCoinHound

Any reason to believe the trime is any rarer than the rest? I would think equal quantities of all were struck.

Any reason to believe the trime is any rarer than the rest? I would think equal quantities of all were struck.
- retirednow
  
  TheCoinHound No specific reason. Just being the last in the set seems always to be the hardest. I am aware that 4 of the 6 pieces, believe in existence, are tied up in registry sets. I think I was lucky with the timing of my interest as within the last 2 years at least 5 or 6 of the pieces showed up in either auctions, dealer web sites or in one case on a dealer mailing list.
  
  [TheCoinHound] No specific reason. Just being the last in the set seems always to be the hardest. I am aware that 4 of the 6 pieces, believe in existence, are tied up in registry sets. I think I was lucky with the timing of my interest as within the last 2 years at least 5 or 6 of the pieces showed up in either auctions, dealer web sites or in one case on a dealer mailing list.
- retirednow
  
  As a follow up, these are all Low R.7 with maybe 8 or 9 pieces minted. The information in the table below spells out the scenario. The US Pattern count is the number that Saul have identified with photos and their pedigrees. This translate to an appearance of a piece maybe every 4 to 8 years.
  
  As a follow up, these are all Low R.7 with maybe 8 or 9 pieces minted. The information in the table below spells out the scenario. The US Pattern count is the number that Saul have identified with photos and their pedigrees. This translate to an appearance of a piece maybe every 4 to 8 years.
retirednow

Thank you all for the comments. I did set up a custom set within MYCOLLECT -"Box of Twenty Set" with the 15 pieces listed.

Thank you all for the comments. I did set up a custom set within MYCOLLECT -"Box of Twenty Set" with the 15 pieces listed.
- 3
westcoin

I love the J-614 two cent piece in aluminum! A superb set.

I love the J-614 two cent piece in aluminum! A superb set.
pcgsregistrycollector

Beautiful set! Good luck on the completion.

Beautiful set! Good luck on the completion.

retirednow

2 years later I have filled in the Missing copper 3CN, Picked up the J619 from Heritage jan auction PCGS 65BN with CAC endorsement. it turned out to a very nice piece and if possible the reverse looks cameo.

2 years later I have filled in the Missing copper 3CN, Picked up the J619 from Heritage jan auction PCGS 65BN with CAC endorsement. it turned out to a very nice piece and if possible the reverse looks cameo.
- ToddPollock
  
  retirednow Congrats!!!
  
  [retirednow] Congrats!!!
- Dr.Bones
  
  retirednow Very Nice. Looks wonderful
  
  [retirednow] Very Nice. Looks wonderful
retirednow

Dr. Bones ... if one noted - I did not show the 3 blanks for the 1869 Copper Trio. partly because I was the under bidder for the Simpson 1C J667 ... However, my desire to go after that piece to start the series was diminished by the likelihood of finding a J677 3CN in Copper. US Pattern.com had noted maybe 2 appearances besides the Kagins piece in the 55- 63 time frame. Bill Rue's Pattern database did not yield any other appearances except Lot 615 in Scott & Company 12/1878 auction. Subsequent to that when I was introduced to your registry I noted that you also question the likely hood of it existences any longer. Not sure if anyone contacted Don Kagin,s to see if his father records still exist to try to confirm if it was indeed a J677. PS: Thanks for your comments about my efforts .. but I am winding down to hand full of pieces. Space is running out

Dr. Bones ... if one noted - I did not show the 3 blanks for the 1869 Copper Trio. partly because I was the under bidder for the Simpson 1C J667 ... However, my desire to go after that piece to start the series was diminished by the likelihood of finding a J677 3CN in Copper. US Pattern.com had noted maybe 2 appearances besides the Kagins piece in the 55- 63 time frame. Bill Rue's Pattern database did not yield any other appearances except Lot 615 in Scott & Company 12/1878 auction. Subsequent to that when I was introduced to your registry I noted that you also question the likely hood of it existences any longer. Not sure if anyone contacted Don Kagin,s to see if his father records still exist to try to confirm if it was indeed a J677. PS: Thanks for your comments about my efforts .. but I am winding down to hand full of pieces. Space is running out😄
- Dr.Bones
  
  retirednow These are auction records as I will have listed in my book 4/12/1877 Ed. Cogan Proof 640 .60 Catalogue Could be J-677 or J-678
  4/12/1877 Ed. Cogan Proof 655 2.00 Catalogue Could be J-677 or J-678
  12/9/1878 J.W. Scott Proof 615 .75 Catalogue Could be J-677 or J-678
  9/13/1880 John Haseltine Fine 551 .15 J.F.B. Litchfield J-677 or J-678
  11/26/1880 S.K. Harzfeld Fine 128 .20 J. Colvin Randall J-677 or J-678
  3/14/1900 Lyman Low UNC 313 1.80 Leopold Gans dented to Brand
  Could be J-677 or J-678 A very similar design to adopted design. Thick, one portion of edge sharp and dented
  9/30/1952 Kagins Proof 2125 60 Louisiana Sale uneven planchet different then regular dies but fairly close resemblance,
  uneven planchet almost twice as thick on one end as the other
  5/15/1957 Kagins Proof 2405 56 211th sale Slightly different than regular dies. Could be J-677 or J-678
  12/2/1965 Kagins Proof 2035 NS 261st sale Acquired in 1963 Slightly different then regular dies, larger flan
  Descriptions are from Kagins catalogues. they tended to be sparse and have noted errors in previous catalogs relative to patterns
  
  Credence is given to its existence as it had a presence in the ANS exhibit and Brand collection . It was described by Kagin in 9/52 listed as like J-676 different than regular dies with uneven planchet one side twice thickness as other. This makes it possibly the Gans/Brand specimen. The cataloging in 1957 and 1965 suggests a possible different specimen which may make sense as Brand appears to have had 2 specimens. It is also possible that the two patterns from Kagins sales were merely damaged J-678. Although none have surfaced with these descriptions. Descriptions are based on presumptions as it has never been specifically seen and cataloged with good descriptions but the Adams/Woodin description in the 1914 ANS exhibit would suggest the reverse of J-617A, 617B and proposed 676-A. It would appear from the Low catalog that this should be 19 mm versus the 17.9 for standard. Also, Brand records would suggest that at least one example was distributed to Armin Brand.
  
  [retirednow] These are auction records as I will have listed in my book 4/12/1877 Ed. Cogan Proof 640 .60 Catalogue Could be J-677 or J-678 4/12/1877 Ed. Cogan Proof 655 2.00 Catalogue Could be J-677 or J-678 12/9/1878 J.W. Scott Proof 615 .75 Catalogue Could be J-677 or J-678 9/13/1880 John Haseltine Fine 551 .15 J.F.B. Litchfield J-677 or J-678 11/26/1880 S.K. Harzfeld Fine 128 .20 J. Colvin Randall J-677 or J-678 3/14/1900 Lyman Low UNC 313 1.80 Leopold Gans dented to Brand Could be J-677 or J-678 A very similar design to adopted design. Thick, one portion of edge sharp and dented 9/30/1952 Kagins Proof 2125 60 Louisiana Sale uneven planchet different then regular dies but fairly close resemblance, uneven planchet almost twice as thick on one end as the other 5/15/1957 Kagins Proof 2405 56 211th sale Slightly different than regular dies. Could be J-677 or J-678 12/2/1965 Kagins Proof 2035 NS 261st sale Acquired in 1963 Slightly different then regular dies, larger flan Descriptions are from Kagins catalogues. they tended to be sparse and have noted errors in previous catalogs relative to patterns Credence is given to its existence as it had a presence in the ANS exhibit and Brand collection . It was described by Kagin in 9/52 listed as like J-676 different than regular dies with uneven planchet one side twice thickness as other. This makes it possibly the Gans/Brand specimen. The cataloging in 1957 and 1965 suggests a possible different specimen which may make sense as Brand appears to have had 2 specimens. It is also possible that the two patterns from Kagins sales were merely damaged J-678. Although none have surfaced with these descriptions. Descriptions are based on presumptions as it has never been specifically seen and cataloged with good descriptions but the Adams/Woodin description in the 1914 ANS exhibit would suggest the reverse of J-617A, 617B and proposed 676-A. It would appear from the Low catalog that this should be 19 mm versus the 17.9 for standard. Also, Brand records would suggest that at least one example was distributed to Armin Brand.
- retirednow
  
  Dr.Bones Thanks for the detail analysis of the piece. Nice detective work - looking forward to your book being published. Any timing update? I will one the 1st to buy one.
  
  [Dr.Bones] Thanks for the detail analysis of the piece. Nice detective work - looking forward to your book being published. Any timing update? I will one the 1st to buy one.
Dr.Bones

@retirednow Unfortunately it was a must need for me as well. I can only trace 5-7 examples of J-619. There have only been 6 sales of this pattern since 2000, Beside the Simpson example I bought, the last previous sales were by DLRC on ebay in 2/16, another Simpson coin by Stacks in 2012. So a hard one to find. By far the rarest of the 3C pieces you are trying to find in this category. Your collection is really growing and fun to watch the updates

@retirednow Unfortunately it was a must need for me as well. I can only trace 5-7 examples of J-619. There have only been 6 sales of this pattern since 2000, Beside the Simpson example I bought, the last previous sales were by DLRC on ebay in 2/16, another Simpson coin by Stacks in 2012. So a hard one to find. By far the rarest of the 3C pieces you are trying to find in this category. Your collection is really growing and fun to watch the updates

ToddPollock

Everyone should peek at this set. These are some real neat designs and the white metal not-so-round planchet is super cool!!

Everyone should peek at this set. These are some real neat designs and the white metal not-so-round planchet is super cool!!
- 1

retirednow

Since no one jump in with any comments I will just answer my own question - I learned more since I posted the question 4 months ago. The 2 Heritage auctions were held with a large consignment of pattern nickels (one in Nov 2024 and a 2nd one just completed in Jan 2025 - the Fun auction). The majority of the pattern nickels appeared from the the collection of Wayne Wilcox. These were either own by Julian Leidman or were consigned through him. Some of you may have known Wayne and what I could find on the internet he appeared well known in the Maryland area, active in the local coin club and had passed way in 2016. Julian had this inventory since at least 2016 posted on his ebay store and then on his own web site. I had actually purchase one 5C pattern back in 2016 directly from Julian. Over the years I did approach Julian on several other pieces but we could not reach agreement on a price and I would just pass. I did pick up several of the pieces in the recent auctions - only limited by my free cash flow. I might have bid on others, ( many were seldom seen and R.8 pieces) that I would liked to have owned - just had to pick my interest. The collection that Wayne Wilcox assembled would have been a registry ALL STAR.

Since no one jump in with any comments I will just answer my own question - I learned more since I posted the question 4 months ago. The 2 Heritage auctions were held with a large consignment of pattern nickels (one in Nov 2024 and a 2nd one just completed in Jan 2025 - the Fun auction). The majority of the pattern nickels appeared from the the collection of Wayne Wilcox. These were either own by Julian Leidman or were consigned through him. Some of you may have known Wayne and what I could find on the internet he appeared well known in the Maryland area, active in the local coin club and had passed way in 2016. Julian had this inventory since at least 2016 posted on his ebay store and then on his own web site. I had actually purchase one 5C pattern back in 2016 directly from Julian. Over the years I did approach Julian on several other pieces but we could not reach agreement on a price and I would just pass. I did pick up several of the pieces in the recent auctions - only limited by my free cash flow. I might have bid on others, ( many were seldom seen and R.8 pieces) that I would liked to have owned - just had to pick my interest. The collection that Wayne Wilcox assembled would have been a registry ALL STAR.
- 2
- Wondercoin
  
  retirednow It was a very nice group of pattern coins. I specialize in pattern Liberty nickels and bought a few of the coins for my set.
  
  [retirednow] It was a very nice group of pattern coins. I specialize in pattern Liberty nickels and bought a few of the coins for my set.
- retirednow
  
  Wondercoin I am sure we had bid against each other in that case ... I did pick up a couple of additional Liberty Heads in the Feb auction (From The Burge Collection). The one piece I was very pleased with was a J631 - a Liberty with Coronet Head. This was an ex BASS (May 99' Sale) piece and is consider an R8. Saul only traced 3 pieces to date. Good luck hunting
  
  [Wondercoin] I am sure we had bid against each other in that case ... I did pick up a couple of additional Liberty Heads in the Feb auction (From The Burge Collection). The one piece I was very pleased with was a J631 - a Liberty with Coronet Head. This was an ex BASS (May 99' Sale) piece and is consider an R8. Saul only traced 3 pieces to date. Good luck hunting

retirednow

I was searching by the wrong Judd number

I was searching by the wrong Judd number
- 1
retirednow

Found it ... thanks

Found it ... thanks
- 1
ToddPollock
ToddPollock

I see it in your inventory also, maybe search the inventory by the cert number.

I see it in your inventory also, maybe search the inventory by the cert number.
retirednow

Thanks Tony ...will do. Little surprised I could find a typical help request for Mycollect on the home page ... maybe there is one but not evident to me.

Thanks Tony ...will do. Little surprised I could find a typical help request for Mycollect on the home page ... maybe there is one but not evident to me.
- 1

Dr.Bones

very nice indeed

very nice indeed
TalesCollection

Thats a really cool set of patterns! Congrats on completing the set!

Thats a really cool set of patterns! Congrats on completing the set!